Comments on: Degrees of confusion http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/ Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:47:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5 by: Philip S Hall http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-1123 Sat, 12 May 2007 17:09:22 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-1123 Dear Tabitha The correct term for the temperature scale used predominently in weather forecasting etc is Celsius (named after the Swedish scientist who invented it) not "Centigrade" (no longer used because temperatures are not confined to the interval 0-100). So no confusion if the modern convention is followed. It is the Kelvin scale that is used for scientific purposes. Kelvin is really just Celsius with a zero reference point set to a level in which all matter is literally devoid of thermal energy, i.e. the lowest temperature physically possible. Hence 0 K = -273.15 C The Celsius scale has been retained because it is preferred for normal everyday use but is highly compatible with Kelvin (you only have to add or subtract 273.15 for conversion - no multiplication or division). If you are seriously prepared to "look at both sides of the argument" then why not think carefully about the fact that in Britian everyone has to know both imperial and metric to get by even though it achieves nothing of practical advantage over a single coherent system. Why should UKMA back down from this when no one offers any sensible "argument" to refute this? Dear Tabitha

The correct term for the temperature scale used predominently in weather forecasting etc is Celsius (named after the Swedish scientist who invented it) not “Centigrade” (no longer used because temperatures are not confined to the interval 0-100). So no confusion if the modern convention is followed.

It is the Kelvin scale that is used for scientific purposes. Kelvin is really just Celsius with a zero reference point set to a level in which all matter is literally devoid of thermal energy, i.e. the lowest temperature physically possible. Hence 0 K = -273.15 C

The Celsius scale has been retained because it is preferred for normal everyday use but is highly compatible with Kelvin (you only have to add or subtract 273.15 for conversion - no multiplication or division).

If you are seriously prepared to “look at both sides of the argument” then why not think carefully about the fact that in Britian everyone has to know both imperial and metric to get by even though it achieves nothing of practical advantage over a single coherent system. Why should UKMA back down from this when no one offers any sensible “argument” to refute this?

]]> by: Tabitha Jones http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-1101 Fri, 11 May 2007 20:42:29 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-1101 A scale of 0-100 is suitable for outdoor temperatures, as it is for our benefit. Notice the OUTDOOR TEMPERATURE part. With regard to road signs, 0-100 km/h is hardly the range of speeds found on our roads. Unlike the UKMA, I am prepared to look at both sides of the argument. I accept that Celcius (Centigrade- why are there two names?) is useful for scientific use, including some aspects of engineering. I hope that the media continue to use Fahrenheit for the time being. Well done Sky News! A scale of 0-100 is suitable for outdoor temperatures, as it is for our benefit. Notice the OUTDOOR TEMPERATURE part. With regard to road signs, 0-100 km/h is hardly the range of speeds found on our roads.
Unlike the UKMA, I am prepared to look at both sides of the argument. I accept that Celcius (Centigrade- why are there two names?) is useful for scientific use, including some aspects of engineering.
I hope that the media continue to use Fahrenheit for the time being. Well done Sky News!

]]> by: Peter K http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-729 Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:33:57 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-729 Tabitha wrote : "Fahrenheit. It is fine for outdoor temperatures". Why use a different temperature scale for outdoors? How can you tell if it is colder outside than inside? Or warmer than the setting on your central heating thermostat? Tabitha, if you like scales that run from 0 to about 100, you should be pushing for UK speed limits to be set in km/h. 0 km/h being stopped and 100 km/h being equivalent to the current 60 mph speed limit on single-carriageways. Tabitha wrote : “Fahrenheit. It is fine for outdoor temperatures”.

Why use a different temperature scale for outdoors? How can you tell if it is colder outside than inside? Or warmer than the setting on your central heating thermostat?

Tabitha, if you like scales that run from 0 to about 100, you should be pushing for UK speed limits to be set in km/h. 0 km/h being stopped and 100 km/h being equivalent to the current 60 mph speed limit on single-carriageways.

]]> by: Philip S Hall http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-716 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:24:44 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-716 The freezing point of water is a more important reference point because it has such serious implications for weather conditions and the precautions we all need to take to protect ourselves in icy conditions. Fahreheit has reference points and intervals that have no obvious siginificance and, as pointed out by Derek above, have an erroneous origin. I would also mention that given the attachment that Tabitha attaches to the calorie (on a another thread) she should be more amenable to Celsius: 1 calorie is the energy required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius. The freezing point of water is a more important reference point because it has such serious implications for weather conditions and the precautions we all need to take to protect ourselves in icy conditions.
Fahreheit has reference points and intervals that have no obvious siginificance and, as pointed out by Derek above, have an erroneous origin.
I would also mention that given the attachment that Tabitha attaches to the calorie (on a another thread) she should be more amenable to Celsius:
1 calorie is the energy required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius.

]]> by: Derek Pollard http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-714 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:18:20 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-714 Fahrenheit is based on two misconceptions: that 0 degrees is the lowest achievable temperature (found later to be in error by several hundred degrees) and that the normal body temperature is 100 degrees (found later to be in error by almost 2 degrees). And if F is so marvellous, why is it so unpopular around the world, being in common use in only one country, with all the others opting for C? Fahrenheit is based on two misconceptions: that 0 degrees is the lowest achievable temperature (found later to be in error by several hundred degrees) and that the normal body temperature is 100 degrees (found later to be in error by almost 2 degrees). And if F is so marvellous, why is it so unpopular around the world, being in common use in only one country, with all the others opting for C?

]]> by: Tabitha Jones http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-635 Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:40:27 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-635 When will you wierdo's realise that some people like using Fahrenheit. It is fine for oudoor temperatures and is more human based. Whereas in Britain the only temperatures in Celcius that we ever reach are the mid 30's. However with Fahrenheit, the outdoor temperature of Britain is spread over 100 degrees with 0 being extremely cold and 100 degrees being very hot. So, whereas Fahrenheit is based on humans, Celcius is based on water! Are we active humans or lifeless liquids. Oh, and by the way the melting and boiling points of water in Fahrenheit are 32 degrees and 212 degrees. When will you wierdo’s realise that some people like using Fahrenheit. It is fine for oudoor temperatures and is more human based. Whereas in Britain the only temperatures in Celcius that we ever reach are the mid 30’s. However with Fahrenheit, the outdoor temperature of Britain is spread over 100 degrees with 0 being extremely cold and 100 degrees being very hot. So, whereas Fahrenheit is based on humans, Celcius is based on water! Are we active humans or lifeless liquids. Oh, and by the way the melting and boiling points of water in Fahrenheit are 32 degrees and 212 degrees.

]]> by: David http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-296 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:38:57 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-296 I think that it is a shameful thing that people in this country (the UK) still insist on temperatures in Fahrenheit. The UK government, throughout the last 40 years, should have educated people to use Celsius and understand it properly. Or maybe they did but there are too many dumb people who prefer to be stuck in the mud. Celsius is easy: 0 degrees = melting point of ice/freezing point of water (useful to know if driving on a cold day) 100 degrees = boiling point of water (useful to know if boiling water for tea). How many people who use Fahrenheit actually know the freezing and boiling points of water in degrees F? I expect not many. I think that it is a shameful thing that people in this country (the UK) still insist on temperatures in Fahrenheit. The UK government, throughout the last 40 years, should have educated people to use Celsius and understand it properly. Or maybe they did but there are too many dumb people who prefer to be stuck in the mud.
Celsius is easy: 0 degrees = melting point of ice/freezing point of water (useful to know if driving on a cold day)
100 degrees = boiling point of water (useful to know if boiling water for tea).
How many people who use Fahrenheit actually know the freezing and boiling points of water in degrees F? I expect not many.

]]> by: Alex Bailey http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-268 Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:26:31 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-268 My original email to Sky pre-empted their response, which replied to repeating rebutals to their claims... but as with a similar email I sent to BBC News some time ago I've not even received an acknowledgement, let alone a reply. I did suspect that by responding to the initial response immediatly branded one a "crank" and got you blacklisted! What is really needed is for more people to actually put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard) and make these points directly to Sky! One point in response to Martin Vliestra - Sky News is available on platforms other than Astra, as an example it ihas been available in the US on cable via DirecTV since the middle of last year. Not that this is any excuse since the vast majority of their audience is still within metric countries! My original email to Sky pre-empted their response, which replied to repeating rebutals to their claims… but as with a similar email I sent to BBC News some time ago I’ve not even received an acknowledgement, let alone a reply. I did suspect that by responding to the initial response immediatly branded one a “crank” and got you blacklisted!

What is really needed is for more people to actually put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard) and make these points directly to Sky!

One point in response to Martin Vliestra - Sky News is available on platforms other than Astra, as an example it ihas been available in the US on cable via DirecTV since the middle of last year. Not that this is any excuse since the vast majority of their audience is still within metric countries!

]]> by: Martin Vlietstra http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-261 Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:12:58 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-261 The assertion that "some foreigners are less likely to understand Celsius" is utter balderdash. Every country that can see the Sky satellites (which are both at about 28°E) uses Celsius. You cannot pick up Sky in New York, no matter how good your aerial is because the satellite is below the horizon. The assertion that “some foreigners are less likely to understand Celsius” is utter balderdash. Every country that can see the Sky satellites (which are both at about 28°E) uses Celsius. You cannot pick up Sky in New York, no matter how good your aerial is because the satellite is below the horizon.

]]> by: Richard http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-260 Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:32:19 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/02/27/degrees-of-confusion/#comment-260 The argument that older folks cannot understand Celsius is flawed. I live in the United States and set out to see just how hard it is to change my way of thinking. I set my house's digital thermostat to Celsius, my digital thermometer to Celsius, my electric stove's temperature control to Celsius &c. I also only started checking the weather using websites set to metric only. After experiencing all the seasons (one year) I felt not only comfortable, but more comfortable with Celsius than Fahrenheit. Not only that but my wife, who thought I was being silly, is now a convert and finds Fahrenheit cumbersome. Anyone, regardless of age, can learn in a short time to feel very comfortable with Celsius; unless they are flat out unwilling to. The argument that older folks cannot understand Celsius is flawed. I live in the United States and set out to see just how hard it is to change my way of thinking. I set my house’s digital thermostat to Celsius, my digital thermometer to Celsius, my electric stove’s temperature control to Celsius &c. I also only started checking the weather using websites set to metric only.

After experiencing all the seasons (one year) I felt not only comfortable, but more comfortable with Celsius than Fahrenheit. Not only that but my wife, who thought I was being silly, is now a convert and finds Fahrenheit cumbersome.

Anyone, regardless of age, can learn in a short time to feel very comfortable with Celsius; unless they are flat out unwilling to.

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