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	<title>Comments on: Britain&#8217;s new Highway Code. Updated but outdated - a victim of the measurement muddle</title>
	<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/</link>
	<description>Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5</generator>

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		<title>by: Martin Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5826</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5826</guid>
					<description>Ezra, the predominant use of metric in the Traffic Signs Manual reflects the fact that roads in the UK are designed, surveyed and built using metric measurements.

However, because the display of imperial units continues to be required on road signs, the manual inevitably exhibits a certain amount of awkwardness when it comes to specifying the siting of road signs showing distances – adding complications to the work of road contractors that would be unnecessary if metric signage was used.

Sometimes “yards” are allowed to mean metres (as is the case for road works), in other cases distances are specified in yards (leaving the conversion to the contractor), and sometimes metric distances are specified for corresponding nominal imperial distances.

e.g. page 20 of Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 4 has a table specifying the siting of approach signs indicating a reduction in the number of lanes.

distance  legend
135 m      150 yds
180 m      200 yds
270 m      300 yds
360 m      400 yds
800 m      1/2 mile

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter4wa4182

Generally, a variation of up to 10% is permitted between the actual distance and the distance shown on the sign. So showing a distance of 200 m as “200 yds” would fall within this tolerance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ezra, the predominant use of metric in the Traffic Signs Manual reflects the fact that roads in the UK are designed, surveyed and built using metric measurements.</p>
<p>However, because the display of imperial units continues to be required on road signs, the manual inevitably exhibits a certain amount of awkwardness when it comes to specifying the siting of road signs showing distances – adding complications to the work of road contractors that would be unnecessary if metric signage was used.</p>
<p>Sometimes “yards” are allowed to mean metres (as is the case for road works), in other cases distances are specified in yards (leaving the conversion to the contractor), and sometimes metric distances are specified for corresponding nominal imperial distances.</p>
<p>e.g. page 20 of Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 4 has a table specifying the siting of approach signs indicating a reduction in the number of lanes.</p>
<p>distance  legend<br />
135 m      150 yds<br />
180 m      200 yds<br />
270 m      300 yds<br />
360 m      400 yds<br />
800 m      1/2 mile</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter4wa4182" rel="nofollow">http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter4wa4182</a></p>
<p>Generally, a variation of up to 10% is permitted between the actual distance and the distance shown on the sign. So showing a distance of 200 m as “200 yds” would fall within this tolerance.
</p>
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		<title>by: Sean Weisthal</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5820</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5820</guid>
					<description>FYI This more generic document:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/trafficsigns.pdf

Mentions the trams' km/h speed limit signs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI This more generic document:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/trafficsigns.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/trafficsigns.pdf</a></p>
<p>Mentions the trams&#8217; km/h speed limit signs
</p>
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		<title>by: Sean Weisthal</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5819</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5819</guid>
					<description>Some documents show distances to exact conversions of metric/imperial, some don't.  I have even noticed signs being "paced out".

Here is one where conversions are made:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter4wa4182

See page 21 for examples.

You may be interested in how heights are signed-up 

(See pages around 31).

There seems to be a mix - and a mix between DfT documents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some documents show distances to exact conversions of metric/imperial, some don&#8217;t.  I have even noticed signs being &#8220;paced out&#8221;.</p>
<p>Here is one where conversions are made:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter4wa4182" rel="nofollow">http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter4wa4182</a></p>
<p>See page 21 for examples.</p>
<p>You may be interested in how heights are signed-up </p>
<p>(See pages around 31).</p>
<p>There seems to be a mix - and a mix between DfT documents.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ezra Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5811</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5811</guid>
					<description>The same page says that an approach sign is to be placed at 1600 m ahead of the road work with a supplementary plate of "1 mile".

Is the rest of the manual similar to this? If so, metric distances are "wired in" throughout. In that case, all distance signs should be metric with Imperial overlays awaiting the eventual M-Day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same page says that an approach sign is to be placed at 1600 m ahead of the road work with a supplementary plate of &#8220;1 mile&#8221;.</p>
<p>Is the rest of the manual similar to this? If so, metric distances are &#8220;wired in&#8221; throughout. In that case, all distance signs should be metric with Imperial overlays awaiting the eventual M-Day.
</p>
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		<title>by: Martin Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5798</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5798</guid>
					<description>On many road works signs, "yards" do in fact mean metres.

See Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 8

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/chapter8/trafficsignsmanualchap8ro4180

e.g. page 74 states:

"The principles for the approach signing are: ...
a “road works” sign with supplementary plate “800 yds” placed on the near side 800m in advance of the works lead taper;
a “road works” sign with supplementary plate “400 yds” placed on the near side 400m in advance of the works lead taper; and
a “road narrows” sign with supplementary plate “200 yds” placed on the near side 200m in advance of the works lead taper."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On many road works signs, &#8220;yards&#8221; do in fact mean metres.</p>
<p>See Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 8</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/chapter8/trafficsignsmanualchap8ro4180" rel="nofollow">http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/chapter8/trafficsignsmanualchap8ro4180</a></p>
<p>e.g. page 74 states:</p>
<p>&#8220;The principles for the approach signing are: &#8230;<br />
a “road works” sign with supplementary plate “800 yds” placed on the near side 800m in advance of the works lead taper;<br />
a “road works” sign with supplementary plate “400 yds” placed on the near side 400m in advance of the works lead taper; and<br />
a “road narrows” sign with supplementary plate “200 yds” placed on the near side 200m in advance of the works lead taper.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: Sean Weisthal</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5795</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5795</guid>
					<description>"yard" marked signs are actually placed quite accurately to what the sign says - as is confirmed by DfT manuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;yard&#8221; marked signs are actually placed quite accurately to what the sign says - as is confirmed by DfT manuals.
</p>
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		<title>by: Daniel Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5772</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5772</guid>
					<description>Dave Brown Says:

"If you ask the DfT (via your MP) why we don’t go metric on the roads, the answer used to be that &#62;50% of drivers were educated before metrication, and so not changing would affect fewer people.  Now that’s no longer true, they’ve changed their excuse and say that it would be too expensive."

To know for sure how much it would really cost, all one needs to do is look at the cost the other nations endured when they metricated.  most were able to come up with unique plans that actually reduced the costs and were able to make it fairly cheap.

The excuse about &#62;50% of drivers were educated before metrication is really saying that British citizens are ignorant and can't learn anything new.  How do they justify the fact that the other countries that metricated also had a population not educated in metric, and yet the people adapted with zero consequences?

The only real reason to keep the signs in miles and yards is because it gives the imperialists hope that imperial is not only dead yet, but there is a chance, albeit slim, for an imperial revival.  Road signs in miles are a visible sign that imperial is still alive and kicking in the UK.

Another point of interest is how many of the road signs are correct to their imperial designations?  How many road signs are placed at rounded metric distances with the miles being an approximation of that distance?  How many signs stating a distance in yards is really that distance in metres?  Eg.  How many 200 yard signs really are at a 200 m distance?  Who would really know they are right or wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave Brown Says:</p>
<p>&#8220;If you ask the DfT (via your MP) why we don’t go metric on the roads, the answer used to be that &gt;50% of drivers were educated before metrication, and so not changing would affect fewer people.  Now that’s no longer true, they’ve changed their excuse and say that it would be too expensive.&#8221;</p>
<p>To know for sure how much it would really cost, all one needs to do is look at the cost the other nations endured when they metricated.  most were able to come up with unique plans that actually reduced the costs and were able to make it fairly cheap.</p>
<p>The excuse about &gt;50% of drivers were educated before metrication is really saying that British citizens are ignorant and can&#8217;t learn anything new.  How do they justify the fact that the other countries that metricated also had a population not educated in metric, and yet the people adapted with zero consequences?</p>
<p>The only real reason to keep the signs in miles and yards is because it gives the imperialists hope that imperial is not only dead yet, but there is a chance, albeit slim, for an imperial revival.  Road signs in miles are a visible sign that imperial is still alive and kicking in the UK.</p>
<p>Another point of interest is how many of the road signs are correct to their imperial designations?  How many road signs are placed at rounded metric distances with the miles being an approximation of that distance?  How many signs stating a distance in yards is really that distance in metres?  Eg.  How many 200 yard signs really are at a 200 m distance?  Who would really know they are right or wrong?
</p>
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		<title>by: Dave Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5398</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5398</guid>
					<description>If you ask the DfT (via your MP) why we don't go metric on the roads, the answer used to be that &#62;50% of drivers were educated before metrication, and so not changing would affect fewer people.  Now that's no longer true, they've changed their excuse and say that it would be too expensive.  Of course the change will have to come eventually, and it's never going to get any cheaper.  In fact, every speed limit sign erected in the mean time adds further costs to the eventual change-over.

UKMA should push for a moratorium on putting up new speed limit signs until after the switch.  The government would of course resist this as they are still trying to clamp down on speeding by creating more speed limits; and this would create an opportunity for public debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you ask the DfT (via your MP) why we don&#8217;t go metric on the roads, the answer used to be that &gt;50% of drivers were educated before metrication, and so not changing would affect fewer people.  Now that&#8217;s no longer true, they&#8217;ve changed their excuse and say that it would be too expensive.  Of course the change will have to come eventually, and it&#8217;s never going to get any cheaper.  In fact, every speed limit sign erected in the mean time adds further costs to the eventual change-over.</p>
<p>UKMA should push for a moratorium on putting up new speed limit signs until after the switch.  The government would of course resist this as they are still trying to clamp down on speeding by creating more speed limits; and this would create an opportunity for public debate.
</p>
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		<title>by: George Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5394</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5394</guid>
					<description>Another point - I hope that the "km" markings on distance signs will be removed once metrication is completed, as I think they look ugly (current signs don't have "m" for miles on every distance).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another point - I hope that the &#8220;km&#8221; markings on distance signs will be removed once metrication is completed, as I think they look ugly (current signs don&#8217;t have &#8220;m&#8221; for miles on every distance).
</p>
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		<title>by: Sean Wisehall</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5293</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2007/09/26/new-highway-code/#comment-5293</guid>
					<description>Ezra, you are exactly right.  Once the US goes metric those imperial vestiges will fall faster than a house of cards.  Fringe groups like the BWMA espouse "choice" yet gloat every time US policy does not give us a choice to use SI.  They realize that its ultimately the muddle in the US that keeps theirs going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ezra, you are exactly right.  Once the US goes metric those imperial vestiges will fall faster than a house of cards.  Fringe groups like the BWMA espouse &#8220;choice&#8221; yet gloat every time US policy does not give us a choice to use SI.  They realize that its ultimately the muddle in the US that keeps theirs going.
</p>
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