Comments on: “Best bananas. Two pounds for a pound!” http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/ Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:49:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5 by: Michael Hawkshaw http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11998 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:31:52 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11998 It was interesting to watch The Apprentice on BBC One tonight - both of the teams priced their fish in kg only, showing that they didn't believe it necessary to dual price their goods (although admittedly this probably wasn't too high on their list of priorities!). Later they showed the confusion that can arise with having dual labelling by copying a price marked per lb but showing it as price per kg instead, so they were selling lobster at half the price! Obviously none have them had ever been to a fish market before! I believe that having one simple system to price goods would encourage people not educated in the imperial system to go to the market, as they would not be concerned about confusing prices. As it stands, some may not fully understand what they're getting, stall holders don't always show the price per kg in larger text than price per lb, and so this may put people off with a feeling that they're getting short changed. It was interesting to watch The Apprentice on BBC One tonight - both of the teams priced their fish in kg only, showing that they didn’t believe it necessary to dual price their goods (although admittedly this probably wasn’t too high on their list of priorities!). Later they showed the confusion that can arise with having dual labelling by copying a price marked per lb but showing it as price per kg instead, so they were selling lobster at half the price!

Obviously none have them had ever been to a fish market before! I believe that having one simple system to price goods would encourage people not educated in the imperial system to go to the market, as they would not be concerned about confusing prices. As it stands, some may not fully understand what they’re getting, stall holders don’t always show the price per kg in larger text than price per lb, and so this may put people off with a feeling that they’re getting short changed.

]]> by: Martin Vlietstra http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11778 Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:08:02 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11778 While it is inevitable that some traders will make use of periods of uncertainty to increase profit margins (whether by proce increases or by downsizing), this should not be used as an excuse to prevent metrication. Rather, the metrication process should be as short as possible, but with appropriate consumer safeguards to make this window of opportunity as short as possible. While the Janet Devers case drags on, many market traders are abusing the period of uncertainty by using imperial weighing machines, selling by the bowl and so on. While it is inevitable that some traders will make use of periods of uncertainty to increase profit margins (whether by proce increases or by downsizing), this should not be used as an excuse to prevent metrication. Rather, the metrication process should be as short as possible, but with appropriate consumer safeguards to make this window of opportunity as short as possible.

While the Janet Devers case drags on, many market traders are abusing the period of uncertainty by using imperial weighing machines, selling by the bowl and so on.

]]> by: Phil Hall http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11770 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:02:56 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11770 I remember Walkers crisps being taken to task by the BBC Watch-dog programme for downsizing 28 g packets of crisps to 25 g without reducing the price. No law against this nor should there be particularly. The main issue is that package sizing is clear to see so anyone can make a value for money assessment if they wish to. Rational metric sizes are preferable for easy unit price calculation, so in our longer term interests I think we should be prepared to tolerate this kind of readjustment even if it means the inevitable price rise (within reason) which would probably happen anyway over time. I remember Walkers crisps being taken to task by the BBC Watch-dog programme for downsizing 28 g packets of crisps to 25 g without reducing the price.
No law against this nor should there be particularly. The main issue is that package sizing is clear to see so anyone can make a value for money assessment if they wish to.
Rational metric sizes are preferable for easy unit price calculation, so in our longer term interests I think we should be prepared to tolerate this kind of readjustment even if it means the inevitable price rise (within reason) which would probably happen anyway over time.

]]> by: Daniel Jackson http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11740 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:52:37 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11740 Alex, Unilever is not a Dutch company, but a multi-national corporation, formed of Anglo-Dutch parentage, that owns many of the world's consumer product brands in foods, beverages, cleaning agents and personal care products. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilever The Elmlea brand is a UK division that produces pourable cream available in different varieties. I have the feeling that Unilever allows there divisions to operate independently and don't care if the product is rounded metric or not as long as the product sells and makes the company a profit. It may be very costly to change the size just to make it a nice rounded number of millilitres. The sensible metrication would demand an increase in size to 300 mL. But like the situation in my previous post this would not be economical. There may be a time when they have to cut costs and thus lower the contents and you may see a drop from 284 mL to 250 mL. Even if they decide to keep it at 284 mL, there is no reason they have to keep the supplemental indication as it serves no purpose. They could drop it. But who knows, they may have an imperial supporter making the decisions and he may want to keep rounded imperial sizes for a long time to come. Does anyone know if Unilever was one of the companies opposing the EU directive? Alex,

Unilever is not a Dutch company, but a multi-national corporation, formed of Anglo-Dutch parentage, that owns many of the world’s consumer product brands in foods, beverages, cleaning agents and personal care products. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilever

The Elmlea brand is a UK division that produces pourable cream available in different varieties.

I have the feeling that Unilever allows there divisions to operate independently and don’t care if the product is rounded metric or not as long as the product sells and makes the company a profit. It may be very costly to change the size just to make it a nice rounded number of millilitres.

The sensible metrication would demand an increase in size to 300 mL. But like the situation in my previous post this would not be economical. There may be a time when they have to cut costs and thus lower the contents and you may see a drop from 284 mL to 250 mL. Even if they decide to keep it at 284 mL, there is no reason they have to keep the supplemental indication as it serves no purpose. They could drop it. But who knows, they may have an imperial supporter making the decisions and he may want to keep rounded imperial sizes for a long time to come.

Does anyone know if Unilever was one of the companies opposing the EU directive?

]]> by: Daniel Jackson http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11723 Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:51:33 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11723 Dave,. If they rationalized the size, they would most likely go to 900 g. With a high inflation in the cost of fuel and other raw materials, the costs to producers is always rising. If they give 93 g more, then they will have to raise prices. A price rise will be noticed and the result could be a loss of sale and a loss of profits. Nor could they give you an extra 93 g for free. They could also keep the size as it is and just label it as 900 g. In some markets this is the norm. This assures there is always the stated amount. Dave,.

If they rationalized the size, they would most likely go to 900 g. With a high inflation in the cost of fuel and other raw materials, the costs to producers is always rising. If they give 93 g more, then they will have to raise prices. A price rise will be noticed and the result could be a loss of sale and a loss of profits. Nor could they give you an extra 93 g for free.

They could also keep the size as it is and just label it as 900 g. In some markets this is the norm. This assures there is always the stated amount.

]]> by: Dave Brown http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11705 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:40:19 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11705 As a footnote to what Alex said, quite a lot of products are labeled in metric only, but are in ridiculous sizes, like 907 g. That weight would have been 2 lb (I think), but they dropped the imperial labeling without rationalising the pack size. I think we should complain to manufacturers about this - we should expect sensible round numbers so that we can compare products. If they only deliver 907 g we should ask where the other 93 g are. The pack size may be labelled, but it looks about 1 kg, so we may be deceived into thinking it's cheaper than it really is, unless we read the small-print. As a footnote to what Alex said, quite a lot of products are labeled in metric only, but are in ridiculous sizes, like 907 g. That weight would have been 2 lb (I think), but they dropped the imperial labeling without rationalising the pack size. I think we should complain to manufacturers about this - we should expect sensible round numbers so that we can compare products. If they only deliver 907 g we should ask where the other 93 g are. The pack size may be labelled, but it looks about 1 kg, so we may be deceived into thinking it’s cheaper than it really is, unless we read the small-print.

]]> by: Alex Bailey http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11697 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:25:52 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11697 In reply to Ezra... although most packaged goods in the UK are metric only, a few aren't. Two products I buy regularly are a good example. McCain Oven Chips are labelled "1.8kg 4lb", Elmlea (a cream substitute) is labelled "284ml 10 fl oz". McCain is, I believe, a Canadian company, Elmlea is made by Unilever who I believe are Dutch. What is even more odd is that most of the other products made by these companies have metric-only labels! In reply to Ezra… although most packaged goods in the UK are metric only, a few aren’t.

Two products I buy regularly are a good example. McCain Oven Chips are labelled “1.8kg 4lb”, Elmlea (a cream substitute) is labelled “284ml 10 fl oz”. McCain is, I believe, a Canadian company, Elmlea is made by Unilever who I believe are Dutch. What is even more odd is that most of the other products made by these companies have metric-only labels!

]]> by: Phil Hall http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11682 Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:37:17 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11682 The US do show a tendency to simplify their use of non-metric by limiting the number of different units used and by decimalising them in a way that is not typical in the UK. e.g. personal weight is in pounds only, distances are often in feet with the yard rarely used. It's almost as though the Americans recognise the value of the principles underlying the metric system but are being slow to come to the inevitable conclusion. The US do show a tendency to simplify their use of non-metric by limiting the number of different units used and by decimalising them in a way that is not typical in the UK.
e.g. personal weight is in pounds only, distances are often in feet with the yard rarely used.
It’s almost as though the Americans recognise the value of the principles underlying the metric system but are being slow to come to the inevitable conclusion.

]]> by: Tony http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11666 Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:50:46 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11666 Actually the best is Whole Foods, which is 100% metric with the sole exception of milk carton sizes (which are sized by the imperial pint and dual labelled). Particularly interesting as it's a US company! They only have a toe-hold in London at the moment though, they are not a major player by any means. Actually the best is Whole Foods, which is 100% metric with the sole exception of milk carton sizes (which are sized by the imperial pint and dual labelled). Particularly interesting as it’s a US company! They only have a toe-hold in London at the moment though, they are not a major player by any means.

]]> by: Ezra Steinberg http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11639 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:15:50 +0000 http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/02/19/%e2%80%9cbest-bananas-two-pounds-for-a-pound%e2%80%9d/#comment-11639 Interesting and useful info, especially for someone over here in the so-called "New World". So, does this mean that all packaged goods are labeled in metric only? Interesting and useful info, especially for someone over here in the so-called “New World”.

So, does this mean that all packaged goods are labeled in metric only?

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