<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.0.5" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Police and Network Rail call for metric signs</title>
	<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/</link>
	<description>Commentary on the measurement muddle in the UK</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Martin Vlietstra</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13610</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13610</guid>
					<description>Mathew Plato wrote:

“I am 16 years old and yet I find it easier to picture 14 feet rather than 4.7 metres in my head. Imperial should be kept, as it is understood by a majority of the public. Why should we change to suit foreign drivers?”

In 1883 the United Kingdom signed a commitment to switch over to using the metric system – a system that had two over-riding advantages over then imperial system

1. It was under international control and therefore not tied to any one country.
2. It is a coherent system.

Since that date (in fact even before that date), British scientists played a leading in setting up SI, but our politicians have leant over backwards to appease various whingers and as result the man in the street needs to learn two systems of measure, not just one. The result is that those members of our society who have trouble with numbers are doubly disadvantaged and as a consequence Britain has one of the highest levels of innumeracy in the developed world.

Mathew, I notice that you are 16. You might have just completed your GCSEs or maybe you are going into your GCSE year. In either case you should familiar with Ohm’s Law. When the units were agreed by an international commission in 1881, they adopted the British proposal ahead of other proposals. The real beauty of the British proposal was that the watt was the unit of power which was identical for both mechanical and electrical systems. Thus a kettle can be rated at 2 kW and a motor car engine at 55 kW and the energy consumed by both can be compared directly. Moreover, if you go on to do “A” Level Physics, you will come across the equivalence of the watt (and the joule) in different contexts time and time again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mathew Plato wrote:</p>
<p>“I am 16 years old and yet I find it easier to picture 14 feet rather than 4.7 metres in my head. Imperial should be kept, as it is understood by a majority of the public. Why should we change to suit foreign drivers?”</p>
<p>In 1883 the United Kingdom signed a commitment to switch over to using the metric system – a system that had two over-riding advantages over then imperial system</p>
<p>1. It was under international control and therefore not tied to any one country.<br />
2. It is a coherent system.</p>
<p>Since that date (in fact even before that date), British scientists played a leading in setting up SI, but our politicians have leant over backwards to appease various whingers and as result the man in the street needs to learn two systems of measure, not just one. The result is that those members of our society who have trouble with numbers are doubly disadvantaged and as a consequence Britain has one of the highest levels of innumeracy in the developed world.</p>
<p>Mathew, I notice that you are 16. You might have just completed your GCSEs or maybe you are going into your GCSE year. In either case you should familiar with Ohm’s Law. When the units were agreed by an international commission in 1881, they adopted the British proposal ahead of other proposals. The real beauty of the British proposal was that the watt was the unit of power which was identical for both mechanical and electrical systems. Thus a kettle can be rated at 2 kW and a motor car engine at 55 kW and the energy consumed by both can be compared directly. Moreover, if you go on to do “A” Level Physics, you will come across the equivalence of the watt (and the joule) in different contexts time and time again.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Dave Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13601</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13601</guid>
					<description>In response to Matthew Plato, we should not change our measurement system so that foreigners can understand us.  We should change our measurement system so that we can understand foreigners.  If we travel outside the UK we will be faced with metric-only signage wherever we go, except in the USA.  In a globalising world it makes no sense to keep producing generation after generation of drivers who are not conversant with international traffic signs (and thousands of cars with confusing dual-unit speedometers).  I will repeat - completion of the UK metrication programme is not for the benefit of the rest of the world; it is for the benefit of the 1% of the world's population who live in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Matthew Plato, we should not change our measurement system so that foreigners can understand us.  We should change our measurement system so that we can understand foreigners.  If we travel outside the UK we will be faced with metric-only signage wherever we go, except in the USA.  In a globalising world it makes no sense to keep producing generation after generation of drivers who are not conversant with international traffic signs (and thousands of cars with confusing dual-unit speedometers).  I will repeat - completion of the UK metrication programme is not for the benefit of the rest of the world; it is for the benefit of the 1% of the world&#8217;s population who live in the UK.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Michael Hawkshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13600</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13600</guid>
					<description>That's an interesting comment you give, Matthew Plato. I'm 28 and yet I find the reverse to be true. I know how long a metre is - we had metre rule sticks all the time at school, and so I can remember the height of one. I think we had one lesson on imperial conversions, and I remember thinking that I was glad I don't have to use those measures!

I think the answer to this problem is simple - mandate dual imperial/metric signs and then phase out the imperial signs by a fixed date. All new high vehicles should show their height &#38; width in the cab in metres only. In the unlikely event a driver doesn't understand the measure, the company can teach him/her. Shouldn't take long! This should pay for itself very quickly by the sounds of it!

I also believe we should complete the conversion to metric on the roads and get the public on board through an information campaign. I don't believe that people would find it difficult. I'm living in Germany now and after driving around for a few weeks, I have no trouble with thinking in km and km/h. Previously I could only think in miles and mph.

I feel much more comfortable using a simple system that I was taught in school, and it also means I can compare more things with each other, which ironically means I feel more at home here. I really don't understand this emotional attachment towards and old system of measurement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting comment you give, Matthew Plato. I&#8217;m 28 and yet I find the reverse to be true. I know how long a metre is - we had metre rule sticks all the time at school, and so I can remember the height of one. I think we had one lesson on imperial conversions, and I remember thinking that I was glad I don&#8217;t have to use those measures!</p>
<p>I think the answer to this problem is simple - mandate dual imperial/metric signs and then phase out the imperial signs by a fixed date. All new high vehicles should show their height &amp; width in the cab in metres only. In the unlikely event a driver doesn&#8217;t understand the measure, the company can teach him/her. Shouldn&#8217;t take long! This should pay for itself very quickly by the sounds of it!</p>
<p>I also believe we should complete the conversion to metric on the roads and get the public on board through an information campaign. I don&#8217;t believe that people would find it difficult. I&#8217;m living in Germany now and after driving around for a few weeks, I have no trouble with thinking in km and km/h. Previously I could only think in miles and mph.</p>
<p>I feel much more comfortable using a simple system that I was taught in school, and it also means I can compare more things with each other, which ironically means I feel more at home here. I really don&#8217;t understand this emotional attachment towards and old system of measurement.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: philH</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13599</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13599</guid>
					<description>In answer to Matthew Plato:

Firstly thank you for your contribution. The Metric Views team are keen to hear from young people whatever your opinions may be.

You may be right about the overall popularity of imperial measures although I happen to know of young people who favour metric and find imperial difficult.

However that's not really the point. Shouldn't we in Britian be thinking about which is the better system? Do you appreciate that metric is more logical and easier to work with than imperial? For example if you were asked to calculate an area with the dimensions given in feet and inches how would you compare that with doing the same in metres?

As to the question you pose about foreign drivers, is it fair to say we are really being required to change just for their benefit? Wouldn't we all benefit both us and them? You must be aware of the predominence of metric in your school lessons. Wouldn't it be more sensible to make use of that instead of having to adapt to imperial outside of lessons?

Please do come back on this we'd like to know what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In answer to Matthew Plato:</p>
<p>Firstly thank you for your contribution. The Metric Views team are keen to hear from young people whatever your opinions may be.</p>
<p>You may be right about the overall popularity of imperial measures although I happen to know of young people who favour metric and find imperial difficult.</p>
<p>However that&#8217;s not really the point. Shouldn&#8217;t we in Britian be thinking about which is the better system? Do you appreciate that metric is more logical and easier to work with than imperial? For example if you were asked to calculate an area with the dimensions given in feet and inches how would you compare that with doing the same in metres?</p>
<p>As to the question you pose about foreign drivers, is it fair to say we are really being required to change just for their benefit? Wouldn&#8217;t we all benefit both us and them? You must be aware of the predominence of metric in your school lessons. Wouldn&#8217;t it be more sensible to make use of that instead of having to adapt to imperial outside of lessons?</p>
<p>Please do come back on this we&#8217;d like to know what you think.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: philH</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13597</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13597</guid>
					<description>If a lorry driver is confronted with a height warning sign his ability to judge whether he can safely pass beneath it depends on knowing the height of the vehicle in the units shown on the sign.
Drivers are required to know the height of their vehicles it shouldn't be left to guess work. Regulations prescribe that this information is displayed inside the cab. The trouble is that those regulations favour imperial with metric as an option - the same as current traffic sign regulations.
Even if the driver does know metric as well as imperial it is not safe to rely on mental conversions - mistakes are too easliy made.
The only sensible answer is a single system that eveyone can understand and use for all purposes. The international metric system is the perfect and unrivalled candidate to fulfill that need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a lorry driver is confronted with a height warning sign his ability to judge whether he can safely pass beneath it depends on knowing the height of the vehicle in the units shown on the sign.<br />
Drivers are required to know the height of their vehicles it shouldn&#8217;t be left to guess work. Regulations prescribe that this information is displayed inside the cab. The trouble is that those regulations favour imperial with metric as an option - the same as current traffic sign regulations.<br />
Even if the driver does know metric as well as imperial it is not safe to rely on mental conversions - mistakes are too easliy made.<br />
The only sensible answer is a single system that eveyone can understand and use for all purposes. The international metric system is the perfect and unrivalled candidate to fulfill that need.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Matthew Plato</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13586</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13586</guid>
					<description>I am 16 years old and yet I find it easier to picture 14 feet rather than 4.7 metres in my head. Imperial should be kept, as it is understood by a majority of the public. Why should we change to suit foreign drivers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am 16 years old and yet I find it easier to picture 14 feet rather than 4.7 metres in my head. Imperial should be kept, as it is understood by a majority of the public. Why should we change to suit foreign drivers?
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13581</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13581</guid>
					<description>The claim by John Hemming that “...some years ago they changed the dimension signs in London to metric. Almost overnight the number of claims for damaged vehicles went up...” does not make sense.

The majority of people who travel in their small cars travel the same routes routinely and blindly travel without even paying attention to the signs.  If they hadn't had a problem before why all of a sudden because the a sign changed?  

If it was due to a driver of a larger vehicle on an unknown road, I could see this happening but on the other hand, if all of these UK drivers learned metric in school since the '70s and have experience in metric in other areas, then how could they pretend not to know metres?  If they approach the sign and don't know if their vehicle will clear, why don't they stop and look at their car manual to check the height of the vehicle and then compare it to the sign?  

If the metre and the yard are suppose to be taken as equal now, then the person can simply change the word metre to yards mentally and then pretend to understand the sign.  There really is no excuse for causing an accident from pretending not to understand the sign.

If every person who strikes a bridge and claims they did not know metric was heavily prosecuted for damages and word got out, one would see those type of accidents become reduced to zero overnight.  After 40 years of metric exposure from school, work and shopping, there should be no excuse for not knowing it and punishment when you cause damage from pretending not to know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The claim by John Hemming that “&#8230;some years ago they changed the dimension signs in London to metric. Almost overnight the number of claims for damaged vehicles went up&#8230;” does not make sense.</p>
<p>The majority of people who travel in their small cars travel the same routes routinely and blindly travel without even paying attention to the signs.  If they hadn&#8217;t had a problem before why all of a sudden because the a sign changed?  </p>
<p>If it was due to a driver of a larger vehicle on an unknown road, I could see this happening but on the other hand, if all of these UK drivers learned metric in school since the &#8217;70s and have experience in metric in other areas, then how could they pretend not to know metres?  If they approach the sign and don&#8217;t know if their vehicle will clear, why don&#8217;t they stop and look at their car manual to check the height of the vehicle and then compare it to the sign?  </p>
<p>If the metre and the yard are suppose to be taken as equal now, then the person can simply change the word metre to yards mentally and then pretend to understand the sign.  There really is no excuse for causing an accident from pretending not to understand the sign.</p>
<p>If every person who strikes a bridge and claims they did not know metric was heavily prosecuted for damages and word got out, one would see those type of accidents become reduced to zero overnight.  After 40 years of metric exposure from school, work and shopping, there should be no excuse for not knowing it and punishment when you cause damage from pretending not to know it.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: David King</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13564</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13564</guid>
					<description>I learnt metric at school back in the 1970s (in this country), it is so easy, we should totally adopt it in this country and put metric on all our road signs as soon as possible. Otherwise we risk yet more lorries being trashed as the drivers have not been educated in ancient imperial measurements (and neither have I). 

Metric signage on roads should have been put into place in the 1970s. We need to go fully metric asap, especially as those of us age 40 or under only really understand metric. I have no idea how high 14 feet is, for example, but I can picture 4.7 metres, which I have seen on some height restriction signs. 

The metric measurements must be added to all the other signs as well. And get rid of the stupid imperial ones, we do not need those any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learnt metric at school back in the 1970s (in this country), it is so easy, we should totally adopt it in this country and put metric on all our road signs as soon as possible. Otherwise we risk yet more lorries being trashed as the drivers have not been educated in ancient imperial measurements (and neither have I). </p>
<p>Metric signage on roads should have been put into place in the 1970s. We need to go fully metric asap, especially as those of us age 40 or under only really understand metric. I have no idea how high 14 feet is, for example, but I can picture 4.7 metres, which I have seen on some height restriction signs. </p>
<p>The metric measurements must be added to all the other signs as well. And get rid of the stupid imperial ones, we do not need those any more.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Davyth</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13559</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13559</guid>
					<description>Drivers in the Republic of Ireland are used to seeing dual height and width signage, however I note that metric only signs are now appearing, the final phase of a very successful shift of their road signs from imperial to metric. I note the Irish have not had any kind of national nervous breakdown which papers like the Daily Mail seem to predict! Problem we have now is that thousands of Irish drivers who cross the border daily are faced with imperial only signs and having to guess if they are driving within the speed limit! In my view Northern Ireland is the key in achieving the completion of the metric process in the UK, the population there seems to be less resistant to change and perhaps more intelligent than people in GB. Metric is not seen as foreign to the Irish like it seems to be to elderly people in Britain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drivers in the Republic of Ireland are used to seeing dual height and width signage, however I note that metric only signs are now appearing, the final phase of a very successful shift of their road signs from imperial to metric. I note the Irish have not had any kind of national nervous breakdown which papers like the Daily Mail seem to predict! Problem we have now is that thousands of Irish drivers who cross the border daily are faced with imperial only signs and having to guess if they are driving within the speed limit! In my view Northern Ireland is the key in achieving the completion of the metric process in the UK, the population there seems to be less resistant to change and perhaps more intelligent than people in GB. Metric is not seen as foreign to the Irish like it seems to be to elderly people in Britain.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: PhilH</title>
		<link>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13554</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.metricviews.org.uk/2008/06/24/police-and-network-rail-call-for-metric-signs/#comment-13554</guid>
					<description>The claim by John Hemming that metric signs were deployed in London doesn't sound very likely. Metric only for height and width restrictions have never been authorised by the Traffic Signs regulations. If it did happen and there was a sudden increase in compensation claims it could have been because the signs didn't comply with the regulations and rendered the authorities liable, rather than the implied increase in accidents.
A known incident did occur about five years ago involving a London tube train driver where he damaged his car under a very low bridge. The warning sign was metric-only and an anti-metric group picked up on it, advising him to make a claim for damages which he did successfully (out if court).
If there were any such widespread deployment of metric signs within the last 6 - 7 years at least we would have heard about it from the leader of that group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The claim by John Hemming that metric signs were deployed in London doesn&#8217;t sound very likely. Metric only for height and width restrictions have never been authorised by the Traffic Signs regulations. If it did happen and there was a sudden increase in compensation claims it could have been because the signs didn&#8217;t comply with the regulations and rendered the authorities liable, rather than the implied increase in accidents.<br />
A known incident did occur about five years ago involving a London tube train driver where he damaged his car under a very low bridge. The warning sign was metric-only and an anti-metric group picked up on it, advising him to make a claim for damages which he did successfully (out if court).<br />
If there were any such widespread deployment of metric signs within the last 6 - 7 years at least we would have heard about it from the leader of that group.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
